Kegare's Dehybridization

Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:54 pm

» Name Of Character: Kegare Okihana
» Link To Character: https://www.platinumhearts.net/t22123-kegare-ali-okihana-tier-4-1-hazard-rank-d#147074

» Upgrading:

Removing:

Old Shinigami skills
Hoho: Adept
Kidō: Adept
Zanjutsu: Advanced
Hakuda: Beginner

Gaining:

Danava Skills

Origin Embodiment: Adept
Origin Focusing: Untrained
Atma Vatou: Adept
Eternal Partner: Untrained

Adjusting:

I. Atma Vatou

» Atma Vatou Name: Pillar of Dying Hubris

» Atma Vatou Appearance: Takes the form of a spear which separates into four vertical segments of equal length. The spear itself has a spiral pattern along it's length and a deep blue hue to the metal itself. The entire weapon is a single piece of metal. The weapon itself extends 3 meters in length and has a general thickness of about 2-3 inches.

» Atma Vatou Abilities:
A spear fashined from a pillar of belief, manifesting as a result of her understanding of her origin and as a result gaining the ability to rip the weight of their failures and sins from their very soul as fuel for this weapon.

If at any point this weapon pierces a target's body (Puncture all layers of skin and reach the tissues beneath (Muscle, Organs, ect), Kegare's energy reserves are replenished based on the "virtue" of the target, however the Metric occurs from the point of view of Kegare and in actuality is simply based on the target's race. This energy is generated by offering up the target's Sins and Failures to Nidhanna as a tribute in exchange for the energy.

"Innocents" Human, Iramasha, Quincy - A beginner-level ability at the target's tier

"Neutral Shini, Fullbring, High-Spec, Danava - An adept-level ability at the target's tier

"Cruel" Arrancar, Vizard, Demon Hybrids - An advanced-level ability at the target's tier

"Despised" Hollows, Demons, and Sueki - Several advanced-level abilities at the target's tier

This process is so thorough that Sinners and Hollows slain by this weapon have their Failures and Sins consumed completely and entirely, cleansing the spirit and reintroducing them back into the soul cycle.
A target can only supply Kegare with this energy once since the process drains them.

When the spear itself is separated into it's four segments and planted into the ground, a field is generated within the bounds of the space the segments occupy, draining targets within of their Failures and Sins from everything within this area every post as though they were pierced, any creature which dies within this field is treated as if it were slain by the spear itself. The maximum size of this field is a 50 meter radius (Increasing to 100 meter radius at Tier 2 and a 1km radius at tier 1) . Targets drained of their failures within the Aoe, but without having been Pierced by Pillar of Dying Hubris, will not provide Kegare with energy.

» Why: Danava rework changed skillsheet and the removal of Hybrid Danavism.

Additionally, the abilities once held by her Zanpaku'to have imprinted upon her, resulting in a good number of her abilties continuing to exist within her soul as Vestiges of Tsupiko.

» Extra:

Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:51 am

[mod]

What is Kegare the Danava of?

Vestige of Tsupiko - Man on the Moon

What can be targeted by this ability? What does it mean to take on something's attributes? Is this a permanent swap? How long does the swap last? Is there any cooldown or restriction on this ability?

Vestige of Tsupiko - Dark Side of the Moon

Is there any limit on "an object or thing" that Kegare can hide with this ability?

Once this object has entered the 'dark side' of Kegare from the target's perspective, that object no longer exists and cannot be sensed by any means.

Yeah no, this will have to be changed to not be absolute. Having a check comparing Origin Embodiment to target's mental deduction or focus is my suggestion.

While there is no limit to the number of targets that can be effected, only 3 objects at most can be effected by it (Clusters or groups of the same item can be considered a single object. Aka, a blast of sand is considered a single object rather than the individual grains. Additionally, things like a 'building' while comprising of many objects, can be considered a single object).

This becomes incredibly nebulous when you get into the idea of 'What consists of a cluster or group of items?'

I have no idea how to even balance that in the slightest, and the fact that this has no scaling at all is completely untenable. I would suggest having objects within a certain size based on her Origin Embodiment.

Does this ability have any restrictions or limitations on usage per thread beyond the three objects? Please add some.

Vestige of Tsupiko - Moon's Endless Shadow

This whole ability is problematic. I'd remove this entirely, if you really want it to work then I'd recommend removing other powers and coming back to readdress this.

Atma Vatou

If at any point this weapon pierces a target's body, Kegare's energy reserves are replenished based on the virtue of the target.

Cut this out.

Having read all of this ability and contemplated upon it for a while, I would recommend coming at this from an entirely different angle as this ability is wholly unapprovable in its current nebulous state of stealing energy based on 'virtues'.

[/mod]

Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:26 pm

Just gonna dump her old Zan powers. I figured they could just translate since Frost approved them, but I'm not gonna go through this again.

Her Atma Vatou now uses the less nebulous metric of virtue by just targeting race.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:48 pm

[mod]

What is Kegare the Danava of? - This still seems unanswered to me.

Atma Vatou

Alright, so it was not just the issue with the concept of virtues that stopped this from being approved. Siphoning energy that is solely based upon a target's race causes a plethora of issues.

What does bad karma mean in the context of this character/ability?

Is there any restriction upon this ability or does she gain energy every single time she hits an opponent? And there is no resistance from the target? No way that this energy gain can be prevented?

When designing a power, the countermeasures and restrictions should be considered tantamount to the ability itself. Please expand on this area.

This process is so thorough that Sinners and Hollows slain by this weapon have their Bad Karma consumed completely and entirely, cleansing the spirit and reintroducing them back into the soul cycle.

Do they not do this already?

When the spear itself is separated into it's four segments and planted into the ground, a field is generated within the bounds of the space the segments occupy, draining the bad karma from everything within this area every post as though they were pierced, any creature which dies within this field is treated as if it were slain by the spear itself. The maximum size of this field is mitigated by Kegare's tier.

What does draining the bad karma from everything with this area mean?

What does it mean if the target was slain by the spear within the field?

What does the maximum size by Kegare's tier mean?

[/mod]

Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:09 pm

Kegare's Origin is Rueful Hubris, which can be seen in her application which is linked in the upgrade. It's essentially making her the Danava of Regret and Loss from Hubris. Her origin is based around what you've wrought with your own hands.

For her Atma Vatou,
She's using Karma in the Buddhist sense, which is what decides what you'll be reincarnated as. But in the bleach context, it is the Sins that would push you toward hell. MECHANICALLY in terms of combat? Means jack all. It only has usefulness in the context of what happens to things she slays with the weapon.

And no, "Hit" is not an acceptable condition.

[If at any point this weapon pierces a target's body, Kegare's energy reserves are replenished based on the "virtue" of the target, however the Metric occurs from the point of view of Kegare and in actuality is simply based on the target's race. ]

It specifically says 'Pierce' As in goes in enters the target. Not a scratch, not a bop, it actually has to go in. So naturally any defensive abilities which prevent this would stop it from occurring.

>Reintroduction into the cycle

No. While Quincy are the only people that can obliterate hollows, other races that slay a hollow don't cleanse the hollow of the sins that it's committed while a hollow. As such, hollows who were originally good people can just wind up in hell. Currently Shinigami Zanpaku'to cleanse a hollow when they are slain via zanpakuto, thus allowing them to be judged based on their life before becomming a hollow. This ability essentially takes that a step further and just drains the 'Sins' without discrimination. ITs primarily a narrative effect.

The Aoe more or less subjects things within the area to the same effect. If something dies inside, its similar to being slain by a zanpaku'to.

And uh, we've had this conversation before? Tier has influence sizes "Wall, city block, ect" associated with them. Am using those.

Added a limit of Once in which Kegare can drain energy from a target, since once she converts their Bad Karma into energy, there's non left to snack on.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:21 pm

[mod]

Atma Vatou

What constitutes a piercing blow if not a strike from a spear? Like what does the spear have to pierce into? This is all unspecific and that is why I am asking for clarification that is not provided in the application.

What effect does consuming a target's bad karma have on the target? Is this trying to induce some kind of personality change in the target?

And uh, we've had this conversation before? Tier has influence sizes "Wall, city block, ect" associated with them. Am using those.

Just wanted to clarify.

This will have to change, so please rethink of a size for this ability that can scale with tier if you wish but is more accurate and usable.

[/mod]

Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:55 pm

The Spear has to break the skin and penetrate the tissue underneath. There isn't really a location requirement. It could be their chest, it could be a thigh.

And Nope, the only thing that draining Karma has is the target's past sins weighing on them. If they got stabbed and then went on to continue doing heinous shit before dying they would go to hell. There is no psychological or other effect this has on the target.

Added distance values to the Tier scaling for the Separation portion.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:01 pm

[mod]

Alright, we're getting there.

When the spear itself is separated into it's four segments and planted into the ground, a field is generated within the bounds of the space the segments occupy, draining the bad karma from everything within this area every post as though they were pierced, any creature which dies within this field is treated as if it were slain by the spear itself. The maximum size of this field is a 50 meter radius (Increasing to 100 meter radius at Tier 2 and a 1km radius at tier 1)

So what does the bad karma draining do in this area? Pure narrative flavour or does she also siphon energy from this?

[/mod]

Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:05 pm

Realized that's not specified. And gonna assume that anything that dies in the area giving her energy in an area that big is probably above her paygrade. So added a line where if it's not killed by Pillar of Dying Hubris (Does not fill the piercing requirement), it won't supply her with energy.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:19 pm

[mod]

Cool, we can put a pin in that part. Now, jumping back to the energy gains themselves.

The amount of energy that this attack drains, even if it is limited to once ever per target, should not be based solely upon the target's race.

A 5-5 Hollow will not provide the same energy as a 1-1 Hollow, for example.

Furthermore, this scale of energy gain is pretty wild. A second release for hours would require such insane amounts of energy, a single mid-level cero is certainly a much fairer level.

Bring all the higher levels down a few notches please.

The Spear has to break the skin and penetrate the tissue underneath. There isn't really a location requirement. It could be their chest, it could be a thigh.

So does a scratch count or not? As you previously said it wouldn't but this is contrary to that.

[/mod]

Kegare's Dehybridization

Kegare's Dehybridization

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