Stats > Tiers ...or... Stats < Tiers?

Hello anybody willing to ready something of mine How do you DO! :3
Well, I hope. I think... guess... meh.
Anyway, as you could have guessed from the title of this topic, this is going to have to do with Stats over Tiers (whcih in my opinion is better).

I'm sure you've heard this at least once before, and if not, then now here's your first.

I'm really glad we have a system for determining power here, most sites don't and just allow people to go yabbos. Not good. This site? Yes, great indeed. However, we have Tiers. I'm not entirely fond of tiers, but of course they're much better than nothing. And well, truthfully, I believe if we could somehow convert everything into Stats instead, it would be better tenfold. Yes, yes, of course if we did, it would be NO easy matter, don't get me wrong. It will take some work if my idea is agreed upon, but in my opinion, as i said, it will be tenfold(opinion) better.

Tiers are good, however, we just have a general idea of where you stand. In the tier descriptions, you compare them to people in the show. Like I believe you compared 0-3 to Byakuya, 0-2 to Kenpachi or something along those lines. That's fine, but people are continously growing in strength etc etc, so using specific people as a comparison is sort of flawed in my opinion. It removes the idea of being unique. "My power is around the level of Kenpachi! buwuhahaha!" Just doesn't sound very unique at all. Each person's character is (or should) be unique compared to others.

And with tiers, we just get a general idea of everything. You're 1-3? Your around an Advanced, but not too advanced, Captain. Sound sgreat. You have

Swordsmanship
Kido
Shunpo
Hand-To-Hand Combat

sections to fill out. Hmm. Let's see, Tier 1 gets 2 advances ... and one beginner! So, that means i put advanced here, adept there...

COMPLETE!

Swordsmanship - Advanced
Kido - Adept
Shunpo - Advanced
Hand-To-Hand Combat - Beginner

That's great! Now you're 1-3 and you're fighting someone 1-1 with the exact setup as you. Sure they're 2 ranks higher, but it's confusing. What EXACTLY is your speed? How MUCH faster are you than me? Is your swordmanship really advanced...? Well... I don't know, I can't say for sure.

We should have exact numbers, not just a word to describe it partially. Of course, it's better than nothing. But there are plenty of times where Tiers can get a bit confusing. I've had my stat system (Dellapero helped me.) on several sites, and it is widely accepted, and not very many people dislike it. It's simple and easy to understand IF you read everything and don't do it half-assed.


With a Stat System, you no longer have a "General" Idea of what is what. You have exact numbers, exact categories and are able to know PRECISELY how much faster/slower, stronger/weaker etc etc than everybody else you are. Not only that, but with a Stat System, we can also get those precious boosts. Yes, we all know it, Shikai and Bankai both give at LEAST reiatsu boosts to a user, and depending on the Shikai/Bankai itself, maybe even a speed strength etc etc boost. We all know Mask & Resurreccion both give some hefty boosts as well. But with the Tiers, we don't know exactly what those boosts are. With stats, we could.

Now, bare with me as I expalin the System.

If we get this system, we would have Two Categories of Stats.


Strength - How strong your character is (i.e. Muscles. Pshyical things.)

Speed - How fast your character is. Can they run fast or slow? Are their blade swings fast or slow? (This also affects their reaction tme. Fast characters can react faster than slow characters)

Durability - How much damage your character can take. How much stamina you have, how long you can last in a fight. (Your total number of Primary stats divided by 2)

Reiatsu - How much Reiatsu your character has? This effects the strength of Reiatsu-Based Attacks (such as a Getsuga Tenshou). This also displays how much reiatsu your character has when they're being sensed by another character.

Reiatsu Density - How dense your Reiatsu is. Just because you have a lot of Reiatsu does not mean it's powerful reiatsu. This mainly effects your opponents. Such as when Kenpachi fought Ichigo. Ichigo had a lot of Reiatsu, but Kenpachi's was very dense, and thus made it to where Ichigo could not harm him. (Strength + Reiatsu Divided by 2)

[These are just for Shinigami. They'll of course be different for each race, but this is just an example of one so everyone can get a general idea]

(The secondary stats are different from the Primary stats. They have a different number completely from Primary stats, and if you have leftover stats in primary, You can NOT use them in Secondary)

Zanjutsu Skill - How skilled your Character is when wielding a blade. How good your character is at performing sword techniques. (This skill can only hold up to 100, 0 being the least skilled, 100 being a master)

Zanpakutou Mastery - Have you Mastered your Zanpakutou? (This shows the Mastery of your Zanpakutou. If you have 1-80 in this stat, you're bound to ONLY Shikai. If you have 81 or above, then you have the possibility to achieve Bankai, but it does not mean you WILL have it. 100 means you've completely mastered your Zanpakutou)

Kido Intelligence - How well do you know Kido? (Like the other stats, this stat can hold up to 100. For every 1 point you have in here, you can use up to that level. For example, if you have 66 in Kido, you can use Hado and Bakudo up to Number 66. if you have 20, you can use it up to hado and bakudo 20. If you have 100, then you van use 1-99, and Forbidden Spells as long as you have learned from one who already knows that specific forbidden skill

Shunpo Skill - Are your Shunpo's really that great? How fast is your Shunpo, and how far can you go? (Like other Secondary Stats, this can be filled to 100. For every 1 point, you can move 1 foot with each shunpo. If your shunpo skill is 30, you can move up to 30 feet per flash step. ALSO, Shunpo skills are this [#1-35 = beginner. #36-45 = Novice. #46-80 = Advanced. #81-100 = Master] Beginners can use flash step 2 times within a 2 post period. Novice can flash step 4 times. Advanced can step 8 times. Advanced can step 14 times. All within a 2 post period)

Now that we have each Attribute and Skill set and explained, how do we know how many points each person gets? This is where we can use Tiers to help us! YAY!!

Attributes

0-0 = 600 Stats

0-1 = 590 Stats

0-2 = 580 Stats

0-3 = 565 Stats

0-4 = 550 Stats

0-5 = 545 Stats

Skills

0-0 = 400 Stats

0-1 = 390 Stats

0-2 = 375 Stats

0-3 = 370 Stats

0-4 = 365 Stats

0-5 = 360 Stats

There is a Beta Number for Attributes and Skills.
Now, remember me saying something along the lines of boosts?

I'm not worrying about making boosts right now. Get over it ;D
Ijust want to get my idea out there before I revamp my stat system to fit this site before I get some opinions and permission. I don't want to do TOO much work for nothing, you know.

But just as an example, let me give you an Example.

Ladies and Gentleworms, we have a very special guest with us today!

GENERAL YAMAMOTO! [as expected, he's Tier 0-0)

General Yamamoto, Taicho Squad 1
Attributes

Strength - 200
Speed - 150
Durability - 300
Reiatsu - 200
Reiatsu Density - 150

Total Attribute Stats: 600 (total)

Skills

Zanjutsu Skill - 100
Zanpakutou Mastery - 100
Kido Mastery/Intelligence - 100
Shunpo Mastery - 100

Total Skill Stats: 400




AND THAT MY FRIENDS is the jist of my idea. I'm very very serious about this, and it is not complete. I don't want anybody posting unless they read ALL of this. Please. I dont want any peope bias against stats posting just-because they protest the idea in general. If you want to protest, then read all of this. If not, then just read the replies which are bound to be much shorter than the original post.

Until then, I wait ideas from the admins and mods, feedback and critisizim. And remember staff, if you ask, I can go into more detail on other races, as well as impliment a boost for everyone, and even characters that havea seal similar to Kenpachi.

So, remember. Don't post unless you read all of this ^^
So, thank everyone who read all of this
I know it's a little confusing, but i'm sure you'll get it after you read it at least two times :3
If you don't get it the first time, that is...

We've gone through the stats discussion many times before. We're far too along for a redo of the whole system. It's a good idea, but none of us want to do a complete redo since we have over 400 members and probably over 200 characters.

So, not even if you form a new little staff team that can do it instead of having you do it, you wont do it? It's not really that hard. You don't have to redo anything. If we were to do anything, we'd jsut hav to create a new board for everything. Iwant to impliment the tiers in so we dont have to do a redo, everyone can just see their tier and know their stats for primary and secondary and just fill em in.

aslo i like to say, I use to run a site that did stats like this but over time people forgoten about them becsue it was really a pain in the ass to do, and simply in the fights he had we just forgot stats in whole

We have tried doing stats before and it didn't work out too well. Staying simple works best for a forum. If this were an actual game stats woudl be great but in all honesty i think the tier system works better.

Also, I just counted....243 accepted characters. That would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much of a pain in the ass to do.

Well, I know I'm new..but, I've got an idea to contribute.

Take the basic concept, and combine it with the current. It's called a Power/Mastery system that combines "skills" and power into two parts of one system.

This site has Tiers that reflect a character's given power level, that much is simple enough. Those tiers can be kept as opposed to a raw stat system (since that's what they reflect anyway). But, there can be the second half that supplements this, or rather, a sub-section that kind of helps to make the Tier's themselves, the Masteries. these masteries would essentially be "fields" of specialty per race (such as cero/bala, sonido, hiero, and resurreccion would be for an arrancar) and there would of course be generic masteries (these would often reflect basic things like Endurance, Armed Combat, Unarmed Combat, etc). these masteries would have "levels" to them that makes them similar to tiers. So, an example of two characters now with a rough concept of both in practice.

Character 1: 0/3
Masteries
Cero/Bala: Mastered

Character 2: 0/3
Masteries
Cero/Bala: Expert

Now, say these two arrancar are in a fight, and both fire a cero at each other at the exact same time. They're the same Level and Tier, so, one would think that their power would be the EXACT same right? Wrong, that 2nd Character would lose in the push because of his lower mastery level in Cero/Bala than Character 1.

Hopefully this explains it. Basically, you could combine the "stat" concept, but make them masteries instead, something less completely concrete, but still cemented enough to reflect individual leveled character's skills and how one could beat another at the same level and tier with a different mastery set.

Ok, here's my thoughts. keep the current system, but maybe refine it. Your tier is your overall strength and general reiatsu levels, as well as determining your starting masteries. However, with specialized training, you can increase each individual skill mastery, and then to increas your tier you can do general training. This works the best for the Bleach style since, well, that's how it works in the anime/manga. Also, a stat based system is harder to implement, and makes fights less enjoyable, as the person with the highest stats will always win.

that's true, but isnt it frustrating to be the same, or nearly the same level with the same skill level (advanced) in one thing? We shouldn't have "General Reiatsu" or "General Strength" just because out Tier is 1 or 0.

Refining the system would be grand, and if we can't have stats, which i agree with everyone of you on what you're saying about it, then refining it would be awesome. We should add a few things to the tiers, such as a

"Strength"
"Speed"
"Reiatsu"
"Reiatsu Density"

Categories to fill out, and based on our Tier, we have something more descrptive about it. I'm not sure what, but Tiers are too general. If we could find a way to keep the tiers, but make it to where things are more specific, and cover a larger area of Attributes and Skills, then that would be fine. It would be great.

By the way, I want to thank everyone so far for contributing to this idea, and adding their opinions, it helps a lot

Reitsu Density is directly proportional to the reitsu. Besides, it affects people depending on tier.