Changes to the 0 Division and new managment
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JJ
Sage
CPKallday
Ulqui
Majestic Moose
Teitoku
Chao
11 posters
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Which Option Is Better? [POLL ADDED BY [THEFROST]]
- GuestGuest
Re: Changes to the 0 Division and new managment
Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:50 pm
Alright just got home from a long trip, so I thought I would give my two sense on this. While I agree some activity changes may be required to make this group what it used to be. As in my personal opinion right now the Gotei 13 is stronger than the Zero Division. I'm only reviewing the facts of the site, however this may be a opinion formed under convolution of my own part. If anything needs direct change, the only thing I can think of is that some Captains are in line to get bumped up to a higher position. But I also agree with JJ the current set up is a fine one that does display it. The Main system where the characters in it are the mains would be interesting, but keeping a character's rank secret as a member of the King's Guard would be harder as a main. Now I am interested to see what the community thinks, now if you think their is a way I can help 0 let me know. I'll do whatever it is I can to give them a hand. I just got home so if my message doesn't make sense, simply Pm me and ask the questions you feel you have for me.
- ShizuoGremlin
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Re: Changes to the 0 Division and new managment
Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:05 pm
To be honest, while Chaozi's idea has some fairly good merit behind it; it doesn't flesh out the positions and exactly what each one specifies. Further because a someone gets in, just because of how it generally has been in the past; wouldn't it be safe to assume that they would be Extremely skilled in what they do, given each of the zero division members have strengths which is why they are in the zero division. As to the benefits, wouldn't those already be something expected ? Given they are high ranking officers working for the soul-king himself/herself/itself. So i feel at least after reading both the current structure and the proposed one; that while it is a great idea, it would need to be fleshed out more, at least structurally speaking so that it was clearer.
Anyways Interesting idea Chao.
Anyways Interesting idea Chao.
- CPKalldayThe KFC of PH
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Re: Changes to the 0 Division and new managment
Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:21 pm
Forsaken Crow wrote: The Main system where the characters in it are the mains would be interesting, but keeping a character's rank secret as a member of the King's Guard would be harder as a main.
I support that thought actually... Hm. Maybe no a "main" to be exact, but someone that is at least active, y'know? Sort of like I have one character that I post the most with, which wouldn't be the one that is in the 0 division(unless that was just the way they liked to do things), but one that I would consider I am active with or plan to be in the future.
I guess a prime example of this is Obzedat, in my case. I made him to fill a position in the vand, yes, but that's something that has led to me not wanting to be active with him. To create him in order to be active when the Vandenreich was active, so that when and if they did do anything he would be there was what I wanted to do. The simple case of not having any threads with him that were developmental in anyway made it difficult for me to post with him when the time came, which made posting distasteful in all. I mean, not everyone might be the same as me, of course, but I don't think that characters like that should be allowed into the zero division.
My main point being, make sure that the characters that are placed into the Zero Division are characters that will for sure post(tastefully if possible) when the time comes. For me, it is difficult to jump right back into character with someone that I haven't posted with in a good while. I know there are people on this site, as I'm sure you all do too, that don't have trouble with this. The Zero Division, to me, is considered something that is a "game changer" when it comes to main plots that deal with the Gotei 13. Which is pretty much every arc, tbh. If anything I'd consider them to be Gotei's "ace in the hole".
- JJRower of Rock. And Souls.
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Re: Changes to the 0 Division and new managment
Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:50 pm
Well, as apparently the thoughts are not forthcoming... or require way too much time... or people just don't want to help me FIX the system; though I doubt that... Here's my cents.
Professional Sense:
Yeah... I don't like the idea of any single person controlling it. I was not sure what the reasons of this being started were, but after hearing what they were I still don't think that they are that major; more details below.
If that's true, then every time in canon that a shinigami has fallen or battle, been killed, or died, then they have failed, in a literal sense. It's just not feasible for them to protect the ENTIRE GOTEI; they are a team, a loosely held single squad; not a military force.
...So an ENTIRE ORGANIZATION is not enough for the defense of Soul Society? Logically, they could just remain part of the SS. Division 1 handles administration; Division 2 espionage and assassination. Division 0 watches over the Soul King and his realm; that has always been their role, and the one and only time threat level has been high enough to warrant their action, even in Canon, was when the final destruction of the Seireitei would likely occur. I agree that they can do things on their own; but as a whole, to divert their task of defending the Soul King is their ultimate directive; if they are divided or doing things other than there, then what happens if another Aizen happens? The reason they didn't care about Aizen was even if he had reached them, they could have obliterated him without much thought, wasn't it? The whole concept of them reacting to threat levels just does not fit with the canon and their philosophy from what we have seen/witnessed.
The first requirement would make me cringe if it were not followed normally anyway, so while I would encourage that that time cap be increased, otherwise I don't really see anything wrong with that suggestion. I do not believe, however, there would be 'special circumstances'. They are an elite force, are they not? Elite forces do not allow for unknown variables; careful consideration and planning is what wins the day, not spur-of-the-moment, and I would think that AS an elite unit they would want as many constants as possible.
The problem with this second requirement is the EXACT SAME one that I ran into when I was originally creating the current Zero Division. Those kinds of shinigami are simply TOO RARE. Creators of Zanpaktou or Kido don't happen enough with the current set-up that the site has to aid with this. This is why I changed it to an invite system based on skills and the requirements of the unit; this way, they AREN'T LIMITED by just those who have done something 'absolutely spectacular'. Katto, for example, mots definitely would be an asset to a Zero Division for his skills, his leadership abilities, and his abilities working alone due to his skillful manipulation of vibrations. However, he didn't do anything especially massive for Soul Society; that's not in his character. Those who are skilled are not always heroic; nevertheless, they can be of great use to the unit, so this is limiting the total ability that the unit could have.
Finally, going through the Captain Commander: This may be mentioned later on from this original posting, but the Captain Commander should NEVER have ANY influence over the Zero Division; for the following principle. They are the last line, the absolute last line, looking at their past and their activities. When everything is truly going to hell and will end, they intervene, so that they CAN intervene. To have outside influences from themselves is not something that they would ever do if they truly were attempting to maintain themselves in the best way possible. After all, it's not a servant's duty to know what the associates of his master are up to or what they are attempting to accomplish. That's the most simple way that it can be put.
Once again; the Captain Commander having influence over them is bad. They have to be able to govern themselves, or else they will fall. They are NOT a part of the Gotei 13; if they are a PART of the Gotei 13, then they CANNOT fill their role as the final layer of pure defense for what the Gotei 13 is founded upon. The house cannot rip up the floor in its defense; to attempt to is foolishness that leaves the house without any ability to be rebuilt should the ground be destroyed before it. Abuse of the system shouldn't really be a factor; if they are truly elected to work best with the squad, than this 'abuse' or perceived abuses should not really matter, so long as they are accomplishing their job for which they were invited.
The platforms; so we are using Canonical references in your current version? Then many of the earlier points do indeed carry significant weight. I do not believe that the Captain Commander speaks with the Soul King, except perhaps in states of emergency; but as they protect the royal house, I would assume they could come and go as they please in order to perform their jobs the best that they possibly can, and would not be limited by his permission; after all, what good is the restraints on a group of people who can only function properly because they lack restraint on themselves, allowing them to go at their full ability?
It is true that they should be equal; however, for them to attend 'meetings' would mean that they are spending time doing something that, for any single member, would be beneath them. Being on the Zero Division is to be above the call of day-to-day living and such; while they can attend meetings if they choose, their office would not specifically call for it as there would be no benefit to them being there; in other words, simply a waste of time for them. However, having only one character goes against another fact; people who HAVE pure Shinigami who reach this pinnacle of ability should be given the chance to join their ranks. I certainly agree that if they have one in Zero Division, that they should not make one who comes out of the gates into the Zero, but still, skill and hard work and dedication deserve to be honored, and if that honor is becoming a part of the system known as Zero Division, than they should be able to receive that, regardless of the other members of the Division.
Lastly; they should be handled from the people on staff as per the regulations of the Zero Division, not by any single person; as that is simply not needed for this division, due to the fact that it IS so small; it does not take meticulous, intense personal effort to maintain.
They are NOT the Gotei; that is what makes them the Zero Division. If they were a part of the Gotei, then they would be subject to the rules of the Gotei. They would be under the rules of Central 46 AND subject to foreign influences, which they cannot allow in order to perform their tasks and rare missions. They have to be separate, for their duty is completely separate, and it always has been. They do not live with the Gotei, they do not follow the rules of the Gotei, they are not able to be called by or forced to respond to the Gotei. For what reason, then, would they be a sub-group of them?
Firstly: Chaozi having contorl of teh Zero Division, for the VERY POINTS you made earlier, would not change anything. If I believed different, then I would give the reasons for why. But a fundamental fact of the Zero Division is that if they have to do ANYTHING, someone f#cked up, bad. Really, really bad. When they aren't doing anything as a group, that should be a good sign.
Secondly: Why is a make-over required? If there's a problem with the current set up, please let the current set up be aware of these issues.
Thirdly: We already do not allow applying. Members are always recruited in the current set-up; in the interests of time and the fact that WE HAVE NOT HAD a Wisdom of the Spell character[/] to perform this task, we have not been able to do it in Roleplay before now; as a fault, that is only in the fact that we do not have a Wisdom of the Spell.
Fourth: I like this idea; I do like this idea quite a bit.
Fifth: The defense of the Seireitei is the job of [i]the Gotei. In addition, the current set up HAS THEM ALL working to monitor the Gotei as it is now; they do not sit on their a##es, but thankfully there have arisen no problems so great that they have had to involve themselves in defense.
Sixth: And was not protecting the Soul King while doing so. Having the pure-Shinigami, elite team LEAVING their sphere of greatest influence, where as you said their GREATEST and only truly required duty is, simply does not make sense, no matter what the Zero Division of the past did; they were likely operating alone, as opposed to the actual group itself mobilizing. That is what actual Zero Division action is, and should only ever occur if a force the size or GREATER than that of Juhabach should appear.
Seventh: They do have a list of their duties; look at their org thread sometime, such as monitoring the various parts of the Seireitei, the Guardian of Fist maintaining the purity of the Zero Division's Shinigami, the Master of Realms communicating with other parts of the universe when needed, and etc.
Eighth: Why would they need to do that, when they know that their one greatest duty will always remain in the realm of Shinigami?
I have given reasons above, but no, they cannot be a part of the Gotei 13, and yes they WOULD exist without the Gotei 13. That is the reason why they WORK, should the Gotei 13 fail then they are all that would be left remaining to perform the tasks that would have to be done. That is why they are the 0. And what you mention about not pre-built for this organization, that has always been my greatest hope. ...I do not believe that it has once happened yet, in the year since I have set it up.
It is also true that most of us are guilty of making people for leader positions; sometimes it needs to be done, but perhaps part of the problem with the Zero Division's current activity was that I did not have people do this. I created my own who at his best level reaches 0 tier, but who still needs some development. What you are describing about the leader is EXACTLY what the Defender Primary in the old organization is; they all have their duties, and his is to coordinate. Not to be in charge, but to make sure that things get done in the best way possible.
Again though; at the same time, not every Shinigami can make kido or zanpaktou for the first time. While having almighty abilities would be nice, for an elite unit such as this making sure that work the best together would take precedence. However, if they were worked up to that level or have greatly pressed their skills, they typically will have something amazing like this regardless.
Firstly: again, if they are not separate, then they may as well be under the jurisdiction of the Captain Commander and as weak as normal Shinigami. What makes them absolutely, positively able to perform their role is that they ARE separate.They MUST be.
Secondly: Activities and missions defeat the purpose of being in the Zero Division; the only time of need for such things would be in a time of absolute crisis, and we luckily have simply not reached that stage in the last year.
Thirdly: Pretty much; it's hard to be able to do totally unique things.
Exactly right. You can perfectly understand why the Zero Division has had so little activity; people JUST DON'T have mains that they take all the way in Shinigami-hood that they built up from scratch nowadays. If someone had expressed interest with such a character, then they would be in the current Zero Division.
Ironically, one of these was held for Pockeh when he tried out for Defender Primary. Unfortunately, he did not remain with us so his trial was not completed, but at the same time remember. Zero Division should only be acting as Zero Division when the entire world around them is going to hell in a hand basket. It's hard to have an 'active character' unless you truly enjoy them as a main like CPK said, and in the current set up they are allowed for the most part to do as they please so long as they remain at their duties. That is an important point to remember: Activity SHOULD be difficult to have in regards to the Zero Division themselves, due to the intensity of their jobs when they perform them which is why they are so rare.
Again, we run into the problem of them having to be different than the Gotei, in order to fulfill their directive which MUST be different than the Goteis and having the abilities of freedom without organizations like the Gotei to perform their tasks on the rare occurrences when they NEED to do them.
The problem again, with activity changes - as a group, the fact that they have low activity is a presumption. Truly, the problem is a lack of members in the current Zero Division. The people we have are there, but there are so few of them that they are nearly invisible in the grand scheme of things. And again, members of the Zero Division should not be joining other organizations, and they are allowed to use the information of being a King's Guard as they please; again, freedom.
Details, details, details are always important; I'm trying to give all the ones I have from my studying of the Zero Division from up to a year ago as well as seeing the bits of interesting feedback that are coming from this thread, while attempting to get the information that is already acquired in the public space where it is being actively debated.
Yes. Yes yes yes. Yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes. Ace in the Hole is what they DO. They are the final trump, the tool used when there are none left to make sure that failure is avoided. And for that reason is the explanations given above; in summary, when it comes to things that happen within the Gotei, their realm of influence, they are the last defense, NOT any offense. NOT influenced by others. NOT prevented from doing the duties that make the whole thing work. NOT being needed a large percent of the time due to their nature AS the 'Ace in the Hole'.
Personal Sense:
Dear god my brain is fried from going over the info from last year x-x.
So yeah. Overall, I don't see any REASON to completely rebuilt the Zero Division; the one we have right now works fine. We just need more members to be built up for it. That is it. This discussion also brought some interesting points to light and clarified others; I hope the information I gave above helps clarify a lot of things as well as providing sufficient information on how the Zero Division that is able to work on our site while remaining as close to canon as possible can work. Please, read all of it if you wish to comment; for now, I am done.
With best wishes,
JJ The Neko.
Professional Sense:
Coming from a long winded conversation held this morning, I took the liberty of attempting to write up a new version of the 0 Division rules, hierarchy etc and am requesting that these are able to be put onto the site with me controlling it. The new division is as follows, thanks you for reading and I hope you will consider the changes to not only show the site what the division has become but also get them moving and active.
Yeah... I don't like the idea of any single person controlling it. I was not sure what the reasons of this being started were, but after hearing what they were I still don't think that they are that major; more details below.
As a member of the Gotei 13's Zero Division, you are Soul Society's first and last line of defence. You serve and protect the King as well as his underlings: the Shinigami. How you choose to do this is up to you.
If that's true, then every time in canon that a shinigami has fallen or battle, been killed, or died, then they have failed, in a literal sense. It's just not feasible for them to protect the ENTIRE GOTEI; they are a team, a loosely held single squad; not a military force.
The 0 division were originally a special group of Shinigami hand picked by its own members from the current pool of the 13 divisions. These shinigami were taken away from their divisions and lived in a special barracks close to the Soul King. This is still held true to the tradition. However since the uprising if several new powers and an increasing risk of attack on Soul Society, the 0 Division has become less of an overlooking power that guards the Soul King and more of a special team that follow their own rules to ensure the safety of Soul Society as a whole without drawing any attention to itself.
...So an ENTIRE ORGANIZATION is not enough for the defense of Soul Society? Logically, they could just remain part of the SS. Division 1 handles administration; Division 2 espionage and assassination. Division 0 watches over the Soul King and his realm; that has always been their role, and the one and only time threat level has been high enough to warrant their action, even in Canon, was when the final destruction of the Seireitei would likely occur. I agree that they can do things on their own; but as a whole, to divert their task of defending the Soul King is their ultimate directive; if they are divided or doing things other than there, then what happens if another Aizen happens? The reason they didn't care about Aizen was even if he had reached them, they could have obliterated him without much thought, wasn't it? The whole concept of them reacting to threat levels just does not fit with the canon and their philosophy from what we have seen/witnessed.
The members had to fit specific requirements to become a part of the 0 division:
Firstly, they must have had a certain amount of working time in the Gotei itself. Members of the 0 division would always have over a 20 years of experience being in a squad at vice captain or higher ranks. It is not an oddity however for some shinigami to bypass this rule entirely under special circumstances.
Secondly, Power does not essentially mean everything. Although the division is supposed to be full of extremely talented shinigami, this does not mean that they al have to be 0 tier grand masters. The shinigami needs to have done something in their life to be granted access to the division. Something worth writing home about. Something that has benefited the inhabitants of Soul Society, the Sereitei etc
Adding new members MUST go through both the Captain Commander and 2 members of the 0 Division. So long as all 3 agree with adding the new member, they are removed from their previous division and placed in theirs.
The first requirement would make me cringe if it were not followed normally anyway, so while I would encourage that that time cap be increased, otherwise I don't really see anything wrong with that suggestion. I do not believe, however, there would be 'special circumstances'. They are an elite force, are they not? Elite forces do not allow for unknown variables; careful consideration and planning is what wins the day, not spur-of-the-moment, and I would think that AS an elite unit they would want as many constants as possible.
The problem with this second requirement is the EXACT SAME one that I ran into when I was originally creating the current Zero Division. Those kinds of shinigami are simply TOO RARE. Creators of Zanpaktou or Kido don't happen enough with the current set-up that the site has to aid with this. This is why I changed it to an invite system based on skills and the requirements of the unit; this way, they AREN'T LIMITED by just those who have done something 'absolutely spectacular'. Katto, for example, mots definitely would be an asset to a Zero Division for his skills, his leadership abilities, and his abilities working alone due to his skillful manipulation of vibrations. However, he didn't do anything especially massive for Soul Society; that's not in his character. Those who are skilled are not always heroic; nevertheless, they can be of great use to the unit, so this is limiting the total ability that the unit could have.
Finally, going through the Captain Commander: This may be mentioned later on from this original posting, but the Captain Commander should NEVER have ANY influence over the Zero Division; for the following principle. They are the last line, the absolute last line, looking at their past and their activities. When everything is truly going to hell and will end, they intervene, so that they CAN intervene. To have outside influences from themselves is not something that they would ever do if they truly were attempting to maintain themselves in the best way possible. After all, it's not a servant's duty to know what the associates of his master are up to or what they are attempting to accomplish. That's the most simple way that it can be put.
Being a part of 0 Division comes with its own special treatment. You are instantly recognised as a shinigami that has proved their worth and a valuable asset. Even those of captain level address the division highly, although some will clearly show their resentment for it.
Because the division is not tied down to common folk or the usual public, they are given higher rights than most. The only person that has any sort of command over them is the Captain Commander themselves. Other than that, the 0 Division is above any other law and can move freely throughout the universe. The fact that they may act above the law is what gives them the most grief however as many believe that even the higher ups can be reckless at times and abuse the system.
Each member of the 0 division is given a magical platform the size of a small village hidden from all. These are created using a powerful phasing technology that removes the platforms from the world unless the person that wishes to view them is given permission by the 0 division themselves of whom control the ability. To everyone else it will be as though they never existed in the first place. They have no phsyical form otherwise. People that are on the platforms are also effected by the technology.
Since the 0 Division also act as personal protectors of the Soul King, they are the only shinigami other than the captain commander that has access to the Soul King as an NPC. They still require explicit permission to talk to him however.
Once again; the Captain Commander having influence over them is bad. They have to be able to govern themselves, or else they will fall. They are NOT a part of the Gotei 13; if they are a PART of the Gotei 13, then they CANNOT fill their role as the final layer of pure defense for what the Gotei 13 is founded upon. The house cannot rip up the floor in its defense; to attempt to is foolishness that leaves the house without any ability to be rebuilt should the ground be destroyed before it. Abuse of the system shouldn't really be a factor; if they are truly elected to work best with the squad, than this 'abuse' or perceived abuses should not really matter, so long as they are accomplishing their job for which they were invited.
The platforms; so we are using Canonical references in your current version? Then many of the earlier points do indeed carry significant weight. I do not believe that the Captain Commander speaks with the Soul King, except perhaps in states of emergency; but as they protect the royal house, I would assume they could come and go as they please in order to perform their jobs the best that they possibly can, and would not be limited by his permission; after all, what good is the restraints on a group of people who can only function properly because they lack restraint on themselves, allowing them to go at their full ability?
Every member in the 0 Division are equal. Even those that arrived only today will be at the same standing as the rest. That is because there is no higher rank than this for a shinigami to attain. The division is not led by anyone in particular as such, but a single member is chosen by the rest in an election fashion to make decisions. This shinigami is known as an Ambassador for the division and is generally the only person that touches down to the Sereitei during meetings. Every other member moves as freely and as secretly as a ghost.
You may only have 1 character from your roster in the 0 division and they cannot be a part of ANY other organisation.
The division will be classed as a team tied to the Gotei Heirarchy and handled by the member currently controlling the Divisions ambassador
It is true that they should be equal; however, for them to attend 'meetings' would mean that they are spending time doing something that, for any single member, would be beneath them. Being on the Zero Division is to be above the call of day-to-day living and such; while they can attend meetings if they choose, their office would not specifically call for it as there would be no benefit to them being there; in other words, simply a waste of time for them. However, having only one character goes against another fact; people who HAVE pure Shinigami who reach this pinnacle of ability should be given the chance to join their ranks. I certainly agree that if they have one in Zero Division, that they should not make one who comes out of the gates into the Zero, but still, skill and hard work and dedication deserve to be honored, and if that honor is becoming a part of the system known as Zero Division, than they should be able to receive that, regardless of the other members of the Division.
Lastly; they should be handled from the people on staff as per the regulations of the Zero Division, not by any single person; as that is simply not needed for this division, due to the fact that it IS so small; it does not take meticulous, intense personal effort to maintain.
My only request was to make it as a sub-group of Gotei, rather than it's own org, which is referenced at the end anyway. So yeah, this has my go ahead.
They are NOT the Gotei; that is what makes them the Zero Division. If they were a part of the Gotei, then they would be subject to the rules of the Gotei. They would be under the rules of Central 46 AND subject to foreign influences, which they cannot allow in order to perform their tasks and rare missions. They have to be separate, for their duty is completely separate, and it always has been. They do not live with the Gotei, they do not follow the rules of the Gotei, they are not able to be called by or forced to respond to the Gotei. For what reason, then, would they be a sub-group of them?
I'd say they should be above even Central 46, as again, they do not need to answer to them or the Gotei, only to the Soul King and perhaps their own person who is in their coordination position.I'm cool with like 90 percent of it, "Captain Commander themselves" < the 0 Div take orders directly from the Soul King so the CC wouldn't have jurisdiction over them as they answer to Central 46 who then answer to the soul king. In terms of Chain of Command, they should be below the soul king or joint with Central 46.
Allow Chao to control the Zero Division as nothings really being done with it right now.
Keep it as an organization but give it a large make over.
Promote direct activity and recruiting from RP instead of simply applying and getting the job.
Create a sub board for the Zero Division where they can all interact and discuss plans. (An IC subboard where they can interact)
Allocate certain members to the defense of the Seireitei, so they don't just sit on their asses all day. Allocate others to the defense of the Human world since one thing that caught my attention when this chat took place was that in the olden days the Zero Div was more active and they didn't sit idly by while others suffered. I think that should be promoted more.
Create a list of general duties for each of the Zero Division Members.
Designate the odd few who work in secrecy and the shadows so that they watch over both worlds from an undetectable angle.
Firstly: Chaozi having contorl of teh Zero Division, for the VERY POINTS you made earlier, would not change anything. If I believed different, then I would give the reasons for why. But a fundamental fact of the Zero Division is that if they have to do ANYTHING, someone f#cked up, bad. Really, really bad. When they aren't doing anything as a group, that should be a good sign.
Secondly: Why is a make-over required? If there's a problem with the current set up, please let the current set up be aware of these issues.
Thirdly: We already do not allow applying. Members are always recruited in the current set-up; in the interests of time and the fact that WE HAVE NOT HAD a Wisdom of the Spell character[/] to perform this task, we have not been able to do it in Roleplay before now; as a fault, that is only in the fact that we do not have a Wisdom of the Spell.
Fourth: I like this idea; I do like this idea quite a bit.
Fifth: The defense of the Seireitei is the job of [i]the Gotei. In addition, the current set up HAS THEM ALL working to monitor the Gotei as it is now; they do not sit on their a##es, but thankfully there have arisen no problems so great that they have had to involve themselves in defense.
Sixth: And was not protecting the Soul King while doing so. Having the pure-Shinigami, elite team LEAVING their sphere of greatest influence, where as you said their GREATEST and only truly required duty is, simply does not make sense, no matter what the Zero Division of the past did; they were likely operating alone, as opposed to the actual group itself mobilizing. That is what actual Zero Division action is, and should only ever occur if a force the size or GREATER than that of Juhabach should appear.
Seventh: They do have a list of their duties; look at their org thread sometime, such as monitoring the various parts of the Seireitei, the Guardian of Fist maintaining the purity of the Zero Division's Shinigami, the Master of Realms communicating with other parts of the universe when needed, and etc.
Eighth: Why would they need to do that, when they know that their one greatest duty will always remain in the realm of Shinigami?
I think the Zero Division should be a part of the Gotei 13... as technically the Zero Division wouldn't exist without the Gotei 13. As for the members that it is consisted of: I agree with Ulqui on that one. I believe that people should not be able to just create a 0 tier in order to solely obtain one of the positions. I think that a 0 tier can be created and then make its way to the zero division, however. I just think a test of activity in the character should be put at trial first.
I have given reasons above, but no, they cannot be a part of the Gotei 13, and yes they WOULD exist without the Gotei 13. That is the reason why they WORK, should the Gotei 13 fail then they are all that would be left remaining to perform the tasks that would have to be done. That is why they are the 0. And what you mention about not pre-built for this organization, that has always been my greatest hope. ...I do not believe that it has once happened yet, in the year since I have set it up.
I think that we need to stop making characters just to fill lead positions, I am guilty of this myself. These lead positions need to be held by characters that are highly active. While some are able to pull this off, I don't believe everyone can.
I also believe that there shouldn't be an "Ambassador" I believe it should be more of a Jedi Counsel type deal, where they all hold equal positions, but their wisdom may exceed others as well as their persuasive skills. Therefore, yes, they would be considered to be "the leader", but in essence they would not be.
It is also true that most of us are guilty of making people for leader positions; sometimes it needs to be done, but perhaps part of the problem with the Zero Division's current activity was that I did not have people do this. I created my own who at his best level reaches 0 tier, but who still needs some development. What you are describing about the leader is EXACTLY what the Defender Primary in the old organization is; they all have their duties, and his is to coordinate. Not to be in charge, but to make sure that things get done in the best way possible.
Also, it would be cool if the Shinigami that were placed in this division held abilities or skills that were unique to all others. Sort of like the Manga, but not in the same sense. That way, some ordinary joe shmoe can't just waltz into the Zero Division and just be some mediocre guy that has been around for a while and has a high tier and has went through a few events in his life. I believe that the Zero Division's members should hold abilities that are almighty against most other Shinigami's abilities.
Again though; at the same time, not every Shinigami can make kido or zanpaktou for the first time. While having almighty abilities would be nice, for an elite unit such as this making sure that work the best together would take precedence. However, if they were worked up to that level or have greatly pressed their skills, they typically will have something amazing like this regardless.
You guys being some ideas to the table, others I had already thought about but didn't mention.
Firstly, the group cannot be a separate of due to its small size.
Because of that, the group will also not be full of people who, as you say, are just given the job. That is why I put prerequisites on.
The actual activity and missions etc for the division I have not had a chance to write as this may not go ahead.
Also certain characters being able to do unique things to one another like the manga is difficult to pull off imo but possibly do able.
Sorry if my reply is small. Sent from my phone xD
Firstly: again, if they are not separate, then they may as well be under the jurisdiction of the Captain Commander and as weak as normal Shinigami. What makes them absolutely, positively able to perform their role is that they ARE separate.They MUST be.
Secondly: Activities and missions defeat the purpose of being in the Zero Division; the only time of need for such things would be in a time of absolute crisis, and we luckily have simply not reached that stage in the last year.
Thirdly: Pretty much; it's hard to be able to do totally unique things.
I just want to add a little bit of extra emphasis when I say active characters, not members on the forum. It seems to be the down fall to most of the Organizations, is that people have so many characters in so many different positions that they lose sight or interest in certain ones. The Zero Division is important, imo, and I think that the characters that are in the Org should be characters that would be considered their "main".
Exactly right. You can perfectly understand why the Zero Division has had so little activity; people JUST DON'T have mains that they take all the way in Shinigami-hood that they built up from scratch nowadays. If someone had expressed interest with such a character, then they would be in the current Zero Division.
perhaps for orgs -as for teams, the 'team owner' could probably do one themselves- you could do activity checks to prevent that. Such as, every so often one holds a check, and 0 Division members must post a thread their character has been in, or some other way of proving that their not simply holding the position. And, if not, at least some explanation (like if the char was held up in an important thread, and the outcome would largely affect him/herself and the rest of the Organisation, Soul Society or even world, so blah this and that etc.)
Ironically, one of these was held for Pockeh when he tried out for Defender Primary. Unfortunately, he did not remain with us so his trial was not completed, but at the same time remember. Zero Division should only be acting as Zero Division when the entire world around them is going to hell in a hand basket. It's hard to have an 'active character' unless you truly enjoy them as a main like CPK said, and in the current set up they are allowed for the most part to do as they please so long as they remain at their duties. That is an important point to remember: Activity SHOULD be difficult to have in regards to the Zero Division themselves, due to the intensity of their jobs when they perform them which is why they are so rare.
Personally, I believe the 0 Division should be treated like the Gotei on this site. The 0 Division is a special group that is revered by many, thus should be led by more than one staff members. I believe all staff should RUN the 0 Division, but it be managed by the lead/ambassador of the group. From there, we can make decisions and changes that better fit everyone's wants/needs and go from there.
Again, we run into the problem of them having to be different than the Gotei, in order to fulfill their directive which MUST be different than the Goteis and having the abilities of freedom without organizations like the Gotei to perform their tasks on the rare occurrences when they NEED to do them.
Alright just got home from a long trip, so I thought I would give my two sense on this. While I agree some activity changes may be required to make this group what it used to be. As in my personal opinion right now the Gotei 13 is stronger than the Zero Division. I'm only reviewing the facts of the site, however this may be a opinion formed under convolution of my own part. If anything needs direct change, the only thing I can think of is that some Captains are in line to get bumped up to a higher position. But I also agree with JJ the current set up is a fine one that does display it. The Main system where the characters in it are the mains would be interesting, but keeping a character's rank secret as a member of the King's Guard would be harder as a main. Now I am interested to see what the community thinks, now if you think their is a way I can help 0 let me know. I'll do whatever it is I can to give them a hand. I just got home so if my message doesn't make sense, simply Pm me and ask the questions you feel you have for me.
The problem again, with activity changes - as a group, the fact that they have low activity is a presumption. Truly, the problem is a lack of members in the current Zero Division. The people we have are there, but there are so few of them that they are nearly invisible in the grand scheme of things. And again, members of the Zero Division should not be joining other organizations, and they are allowed to use the information of being a King's Guard as they please; again, freedom.
To be honest, while Chaozi's idea has some fairly good merit behind it; it doesn't flesh out the positions and exactly what each one specifies. Further because a someone gets in, just because of how it generally has been in the past; wouldn't it be safe to assume that they would be Extremely skilled in what they do, given each of the zero division members have strengths which is why they are in the zero division. As to the benefits, wouldn't those already be something expected ? Given they are high ranking officers working for the soul-king himself/herself/itself. So i feel at least after reading both the current structure and the proposed one; that while it is a great idea, it would need to be fleshed out more, at least structurally speaking so that it was clearer.
Details, details, details are always important; I'm trying to give all the ones I have from my studying of the Zero Division from up to a year ago as well as seeing the bits of interesting feedback that are coming from this thread, while attempting to get the information that is already acquired in the public space where it is being actively debated.
My main point being, make sure that the characters that are placed into the Zero Division are characters that will for sure post(tastefully if possible) when the time comes. For me, it is difficult to jump right back into character with someone that I haven't posted with in a good while. I know there are people on this site, as I'm sure you all do too, that don't have trouble with this. The Zero Division, to me, is considered something that is a "game changer" when it comes to main plots that deal with the Gotei 13. Which is pretty much every arc, tbh. If anything I'd consider them to be Gotei's "ace in the hole".
Yes. Yes yes yes. Yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes. Ace in the Hole is what they DO. They are the final trump, the tool used when there are none left to make sure that failure is avoided. And for that reason is the explanations given above; in summary, when it comes to things that happen within the Gotei, their realm of influence, they are the last defense, NOT any offense. NOT influenced by others. NOT prevented from doing the duties that make the whole thing work. NOT being needed a large percent of the time due to their nature AS the 'Ace in the Hole'.
Personal Sense:
Dear god my brain is fried from going over the info from last year x-x.
So yeah. Overall, I don't see any REASON to completely rebuilt the Zero Division; the one we have right now works fine. We just need more members to be built up for it. That is it. This discussion also brought some interesting points to light and clarified others; I hope the information I gave above helps clarify a lot of things as well as providing sufficient information on how the Zero Division that is able to work on our site while remaining as close to canon as possible can work. Please, read all of it if you wish to comment; for now, I am done.
With best wishes,
JJ The Neko.
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.
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Re: Changes to the 0 Division and new managment
Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:25 am
After close scrutiny, I'd like to agree to JJs explanation/response. In my personal opinion after reading the above, the change isnt too necessary and the Zero Division shouldnt merge as he's right, we follow what the canon haas set out so there wouldnt be any point what so ever in making it apart of the Gotei. At first i thought it may encourage RP buy considering their profession they have the freedom to do alll they want as covertly as they want. Going back to my earlier point, the best of the Shinigami race shouldnt be baby sitting the Gotei, it reallllllly is unrealistic considering the fact that fodder and npc included there are thousand of shinigami.
All in all, keep it the same, but update the organization as it seems a little out dated, give it a badass template and leave them to their things.
I think now that I've finished Izanagi, ill go on to recruit potential members of for the Zero Division so hopefuy things willl pick up around the organization.
All in all, keep it the same, but update the organization as it seems a little out dated, give it a badass template and leave them to their things.
I think now that I've finished Izanagi, ill go on to recruit potential members of for the Zero Division so hopefuy things willl pick up around the organization.
Re: Changes to the 0 Division and new managment
Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:21 am
«JUST DROPPING MY VIEW ON THIS»
Hm, I've observed it for a bit and due to a lot of external pressure in my personal life at the moment, I haven't really given my officially documented opinion on this. So, while I have the time, I'll most likely drop what I feel about this whole ordeal.
When it comes down to it: I don't really care what happens to the 0 Division or not. That's what you should get out of all of what I'm going to say. Getting that much out of the way, the reason why this discussion was had is to gauge where the community felt about the 0 Division group as it's been a hot button topic the past few weeks. It came to a high point a few days ago when this topic was had and I gave Chaozi the permission to make a debate about this as many were wondering about it as seen by this threads responses.
Given that information which is publicly known - I'm beginning to fall into the line of logic that spirals towards 0 Division being pointless. It's a group of super elites that demand a strong crop of Shinigami, yet we already had problems just maintaining active Captains. Through this debate, there has been back and before between what the Zero Division should be and what it shouldn't; coming to a conclusion that there isn't a steady consensus at to what our 0 Division should be. Thus, causing further conflict. And being that we are cracking down on 0 tiers more in the future, this further puts the point of the 0 Division into question when it comes to capable Shinigami.
Heck, with it being limited to so many people, my honest opinion is that it should be a team because a handful of Shinigami does NOT warrant a full-fledged org. I see it as a half-way point between the two because they do get paid, but it's not something just anyone can join with a template like with most of the other orgs. So I'm incline to just making it a gloried team with special perks than anything else. As, to me, that's all it is.
Furthermore, if you want to get further into this? I'm seriously geared towards just removing it outright like we do with kido crops. It was removed for similar reasons: lack of Shinigami able to perform in this position, the number of characters on the site not being sufficient enough to warrant it's position, a ton of conflict as to how it should be run and ultimately lack of activity. With times changing on the site, I'm beginning to try and adapt to the new world. And sometimes that calls by trimming down the fat; as I've even considered cutting down on the positions in my own organizations to adjust for the reality vs the ideal.
We all want these positions to be super active, we all want people to constantly play these positions and we hope that there are many characters capable of this. However, the reality of it is: we don't. We have to come to grips with that and realize that it's most likely time to start making changes. I've seen this throughout the few days and I'm honestly considering doing more adjustments as these debates on high tiered character, the 0 division, staff activity and everything else in between have made me seen something major needs to be done in the near future. We are getting older, we can't go all out with these characters like we did when we were younger and everyone's lives are getting much more complicated including myself. So we are missing the very pressing factor of life itself getting in the way of this dream.
What's more? We don't even have a god damn Soul king TO protect in the first place to warrant the very purpose of this friggin' organization. Sure, he was referenced in the site's lore, but there isn't any sort of application made on the site like Touketsu/Truth; his angelic and demonic equivalents. We've got no actual realm for the dude, no background information, no sort of capacity of his powers and ultimately it's just something that hangs in the background as an enigma to everyone on the site.
Of course this can change, but who is capable of handing such a character or making such an app? It's one thing to do so with OC characters to the site, but the Soul King is just something we've strayed away from because most (including myself) just want to see more information on the guy before leaping forth.
And, in fact, that leads to the whole conclusion of it all: perhaps we should just wait before reinstating the 0 Division on the site. I'm not really convinced we are even prepared for this and I've considered another conclusion of just archiving it until we reach a point where they are warranted. That point would most likely come when most in the Gotei 13 filled, we have something Shinigami, more 0 tiers upwards of 0-3/0-2 and active people playing them that are serious qualifiers for such a position.
This gap in time would allow people to grow, see who is functional for such a position and just let the current Gotei 13 grow more as it's been in a state of needed repair for quite some time. But, that's just my opinion. You can take it with a grain of salt, you can oppose it and you can agree with me: I don't care. What I care about is most likely settling this in a civilized matter and I'm most likely going to have this thread conclude in a poll between JJ's Proposal, Chaozi's Proposal and my own along with anyone else who is able to pitch a strong 0 division idea for the thread.
Thus, with that said, I think I'll conclude my statements here until I have anything else to add. The only thing extra I can add is that I'm under the assumption Kyle also feels similar to the way I do after a comment on xat, so with two admins having this feeling, it's worth baring in mind.
--EDIT BELOW--
Also, if I had my hands on the 0 Division? I wouldn't bother having their objective be to protect the Soul King or even the Royal Families, because all of these people are capable of protecting themselves if they have power associated to the Soul King. With the way the PH Soul King is, he is s'pose to be on par with Touketsu/Truth, fought against Kin and is essentially 0-1+. Why the flying FUCK does he need protection or anyone with his power? It makes no sense. Just look at Touketsu and the Asthavon family: do you see them really needing to be shielded by Shadow Fall?
Therefore, I see them being something akin to a military. The Gotei 13 are apart of keeping the country of the Soul Society safe with their police force. However, when ungodly catastrophic event that is natural or terrorist-like in nature threatens this country, I can see 0 Division being deployed as an ace in the hole like mentioned before in this thread. Since the PH war is currently on the edge of war, I can most likely seeing this being more realistic than anything else.
So, they'd work alongside the Gotei 13 from orders by the Soul King. They'd have his law favoring them for the people who want to have some sort of special permission, but it would still be two different forces. Since to my limited knowledge in the affairs of public safety and military, don't they kind of just go hand and hand in natural disasters ? Firemen, Policemen, Medics and national guard forces working together to get shit settled. Different positions, but all unified by one goal: saving your ass. I'm under the impression that probably isn't how operations are handled, but that's just how I view them and how I view the 0 Division and Gotei 13 dynamic. All of these services are put in place for the betterment of the public and their safety against otherworldly threats.
And on that, I'll conclude this extra statement. My alternatives would be either placing this thing into inactive until we are ready for 0 Division, doing away with 0 Division altogether by the SS/Soul King deeming them unnecessary or making them some sort of elite military. I don't care which, just something needs to be done.
For the record, I also don't find anything in here to be really heated. The Discussion has been fine, I just figure a decisive ending is needed for something like this rather than some vague notion of change that is dismissed after a few weeks.
When it comes down to it: I don't really care what happens to the 0 Division or not. That's what you should get out of all of what I'm going to say. Getting that much out of the way, the reason why this discussion was had is to gauge where the community felt about the 0 Division group as it's been a hot button topic the past few weeks. It came to a high point a few days ago when this topic was had and I gave Chaozi the permission to make a debate about this as many were wondering about it as seen by this threads responses.
Given that information which is publicly known - I'm beginning to fall into the line of logic that spirals towards 0 Division being pointless. It's a group of super elites that demand a strong crop of Shinigami, yet we already had problems just maintaining active Captains. Through this debate, there has been back and before between what the Zero Division should be and what it shouldn't; coming to a conclusion that there isn't a steady consensus at to what our 0 Division should be. Thus, causing further conflict. And being that we are cracking down on 0 tiers more in the future, this further puts the point of the 0 Division into question when it comes to capable Shinigami.
Heck, with it being limited to so many people, my honest opinion is that it should be a team because a handful of Shinigami does NOT warrant a full-fledged org. I see it as a half-way point between the two because they do get paid, but it's not something just anyone can join with a template like with most of the other orgs. So I'm incline to just making it a gloried team with special perks than anything else. As, to me, that's all it is.
Furthermore, if you want to get further into this? I'm seriously geared towards just removing it outright like we do with kido crops. It was removed for similar reasons: lack of Shinigami able to perform in this position, the number of characters on the site not being sufficient enough to warrant it's position, a ton of conflict as to how it should be run and ultimately lack of activity. With times changing on the site, I'm beginning to try and adapt to the new world. And sometimes that calls by trimming down the fat; as I've even considered cutting down on the positions in my own organizations to adjust for the reality vs the ideal.
We all want these positions to be super active, we all want people to constantly play these positions and we hope that there are many characters capable of this. However, the reality of it is: we don't. We have to come to grips with that and realize that it's most likely time to start making changes. I've seen this throughout the few days and I'm honestly considering doing more adjustments as these debates on high tiered character, the 0 division, staff activity and everything else in between have made me seen something major needs to be done in the near future. We are getting older, we can't go all out with these characters like we did when we were younger and everyone's lives are getting much more complicated including myself. So we are missing the very pressing factor of life itself getting in the way of this dream.
What's more? We don't even have a god damn Soul king TO protect in the first place to warrant the very purpose of this friggin' organization. Sure, he was referenced in the site's lore, but there isn't any sort of application made on the site like Touketsu/Truth; his angelic and demonic equivalents. We've got no actual realm for the dude, no background information, no sort of capacity of his powers and ultimately it's just something that hangs in the background as an enigma to everyone on the site.
Of course this can change, but who is capable of handing such a character or making such an app? It's one thing to do so with OC characters to the site, but the Soul King is just something we've strayed away from because most (including myself) just want to see more information on the guy before leaping forth.
And, in fact, that leads to the whole conclusion of it all: perhaps we should just wait before reinstating the 0 Division on the site. I'm not really convinced we are even prepared for this and I've considered another conclusion of just archiving it until we reach a point where they are warranted. That point would most likely come when most in the Gotei 13 filled, we have something Shinigami, more 0 tiers upwards of 0-3/0-2 and active people playing them that are serious qualifiers for such a position.
This gap in time would allow people to grow, see who is functional for such a position and just let the current Gotei 13 grow more as it's been in a state of needed repair for quite some time. But, that's just my opinion. You can take it with a grain of salt, you can oppose it and you can agree with me: I don't care. What I care about is most likely settling this in a civilized matter and I'm most likely going to have this thread conclude in a poll between JJ's Proposal, Chaozi's Proposal and my own along with anyone else who is able to pitch a strong 0 division idea for the thread.
Thus, with that said, I think I'll conclude my statements here until I have anything else to add. The only thing extra I can add is that I'm under the assumption Kyle also feels similar to the way I do after a comment on xat, so with two admins having this feeling, it's worth baring in mind.
--EDIT BELOW--
Also, if I had my hands on the 0 Division? I wouldn't bother having their objective be to protect the Soul King or even the Royal Families, because all of these people are capable of protecting themselves if they have power associated to the Soul King. With the way the PH Soul King is, he is s'pose to be on par with Touketsu/Truth, fought against Kin and is essentially 0-1+. Why the flying FUCK does he need protection or anyone with his power? It makes no sense. Just look at Touketsu and the Asthavon family: do you see them really needing to be shielded by Shadow Fall?
Therefore, I see them being something akin to a military. The Gotei 13 are apart of keeping the country of the Soul Society safe with their police force. However, when ungodly catastrophic event that is natural or terrorist-like in nature threatens this country, I can see 0 Division being deployed as an ace in the hole like mentioned before in this thread. Since the PH war is currently on the edge of war, I can most likely seeing this being more realistic than anything else.
So, they'd work alongside the Gotei 13 from orders by the Soul King. They'd have his law favoring them for the people who want to have some sort of special permission, but it would still be two different forces. Since to my limited knowledge in the affairs of public safety and military, don't they kind of just go hand and hand in natural disasters ? Firemen, Policemen, Medics and national guard forces working together to get shit settled. Different positions, but all unified by one goal: saving your ass. I'm under the impression that probably isn't how operations are handled, but that's just how I view them and how I view the 0 Division and Gotei 13 dynamic. All of these services are put in place for the betterment of the public and their safety against otherworldly threats.
And on that, I'll conclude this extra statement. My alternatives would be either placing this thing into inactive until we are ready for 0 Division, doing away with 0 Division altogether by the SS/Soul King deeming them unnecessary or making them some sort of elite military. I don't care which, just something needs to be done.
For the record, I also don't find anything in here to be really heated. The Discussion has been fine, I just figure a decisive ending is needed for something like this rather than some vague notion of change that is dismissed after a few weeks.
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Re: Changes to the 0 Division and new managment
Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:55 am
Well originally when I had written this I had not included the soul king as I honestly thought he was already dead. This was brought to my attention and I changed it to incorporate him but you do raise a good point. Id like to remove the ' protect the king' part and focus more on the 'above the law, talented special operation force' that I was trying to turn them into. They can't do what they used to after all. Time have changed, the site is not 100% canon so I don't see any issue with change. However as frosty said, will we have enough characters to fill it? I don't know but I'm excited to find out! The team might only be 6 characters in size but that's just another trait of the division. It's almost like a vip club.
Anywho, just my on the spot thoughts on frosts comments.
Anywho, just my on the spot thoughts on frosts comments.
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Re: Changes to the 0 Division and new managment
Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:14 pm
From: JJ The Neko
To: This Discussion Thread
Professional Sense:
I do agree with the first request; the only problem I could see with that is argument amongst staff, but as long as the way it works is solid, cohesive, and followed, there should be no problems whatsoever.
The second request, however, completely goes against what happened when I redesigned them. They ARE completely redesigned to be a more fitting Zero Division, from the bottom up; they were built on the premise that such extenuating outside interfering was wrong. While the site lore exists, they were rebuilt so that they were not hung up by that and could focus on that prime directive much better. So the whole point of 'better represent its history'... doesn't work, as this Zero Division does not have that history due to the redesign. The Articles of Confederacy were quickly abolished and replaced with the Constitution to create a system that knew WHAT it was doing and that WORKED. The Articles were abolished, and no longer hold sway in the land over the Constitution. That's what happens when something is created over something of the past in order to improve it for what it wants accomplished. I realize your sensitivity; but I did do my homework before recreating them, and they WERE intended to be as close to the canon Zero Division as possible. After all, that is the Zero Division that is appropriate for the Bleach universe; so to be like them is something that would be desirable.
...That is the proper way of signing off of a message sent out of official business... And while I don't know the past, exactly, I do know that maintaining a level of professionalism is always helpful towards discussions. It helps get things done in the most efficient way possible, but I have abode by your request and moved the information to the top of the post.
...It is true that they have always been more of a team than an Organization, and would likely be better off that way. However, much like the Akatsuki, that doesn't mean they have to be spotlight, front-and-center. The good thing about the Zero Division is that it is a place for Shinigami to go once they have ascended captainhood, or another would do better in their current position. If we remove them entirely, we lose that ability. Perhaps it would do best not to inactivate them or disband them, but to set them aside in the teams board for now? They aren't hurting anything, and we know that they are supposed to be an important part of the Bleach Universe. In addition... the canon Zero Division are there for SOMETHING; in regards to the big man upstairs himself, we don't know yet. If we find out and it truly is unnecessary, then perhaps we should disband them; but remember that then Shinigami would indeed be locked in those captain positions or just become 'veterans'; not a particularly unique term. I do think that the site should have them, in some capacity, to serve as that 'ace', though it may be true that they should not have an extremely visible presence. Just some things to consider.
Right; I see that they should be an Ace in the Hole, but since their change, which means they are not doing what they did before, they save it for when it truly matters; on home turf, where it is ABSOLUTELY the most vital. Shinigami will indeed come and go; that is a fact that won't change. However, if they lose the place that they come from, then it's all useless. That's why they should be an Ace in one specific place; they have the freedom to go other places or do other things on an individual level, but it needs to be organized in how they do so in order to make sure that their foremost responsibility is maintained. Their purpose as a Zero Division is the interest of the Gotei's structure maintaining itself. As long as the structure is intact, the Zero Division as a group should not be involved; that keeps their ability as "Ace's" at its highest and most focused level, and TRULY gives it meaning when they NEED to trigger.
In the present version, the squad is able to have up to 12 members, almost as many as there are Captains in the Gotei. This was not by accident; it is set up to have the ability to expand, so long as the basic structure of the group is maintained. Presently, however, we do not have that basic structure, and therein is the problem, as discussed above. I believe they would be fine for the interests of the site if simply those 6 who are the 'bones' of the organization are present; the other six are the 'body', and can fulfill other roles unless they are needed elsewhere.
Personal Sense: Chaozi, please tell me that you actually read what I said... I practically wrote half of it for you to do so....
To: This Discussion Thread
Professional Sense:
Ultimately, I just want 2 things from the 0 Division. For it to not be managed by one person, but the collective staff, just as the Gotei is managed, and for the unit to respect the site lore in separation from the Manga Lore. The Manga Lore of the Zero Division is completely different from the Site one in that the site Zero Division has technically it's own story going back further than the Manga's involvement. I can remember back on Untold Stories when we first made the Zero Division after it was said to exist in the Manga's "Past" arc. From there, Untold Stories made their own Zero Division and ran its own mission in respect to protecting the Soul King and Royal Families. like the Iramasha and others. From that respect, there is a lore and history following that Division that has crossed over into Platinum Hearts and continued thus forth. I don't mind the current set up entirely, a small tweak here and there would fancy me perfect, I just personally want the org to better represent its history and be managed collectively by staff. The Org can be run by the "Lead/Ambassador" type, but who gets hired and whatnot should be a group detail. The Zero Division is a very sensitive thing to me, since I technically ran it for 400+ years of site history, thus I want to see it grow and develop. That's kinda why I'm a bit passionate about it overall.
I do agree with the first request; the only problem I could see with that is argument amongst staff, but as long as the way it works is solid, cohesive, and followed, there should be no problems whatsoever.
The second request, however, completely goes against what happened when I redesigned them. They ARE completely redesigned to be a more fitting Zero Division, from the bottom up; they were built on the premise that such extenuating outside interfering was wrong. While the site lore exists, they were rebuilt so that they were not hung up by that and could focus on that prime directive much better. So the whole point of 'better represent its history'... doesn't work, as this Zero Division does not have that history due to the redesign. The Articles of Confederacy were quickly abolished and replaced with the Constitution to create a system that knew WHAT it was doing and that WORKED. The Articles were abolished, and no longer hold sway in the land over the Constitution. That's what happens when something is created over something of the past in order to improve it for what it wants accomplished. I realize your sensitivity; but I did do my homework before recreating them, and they WERE intended to be as close to the canon Zero Division as possible. After all, that is the Zero Division that is appropriate for the Bleach universe; so to be like them is something that would be desirable.
Also, please don't end your posts with the "Name/Title" format. It really brings sour memories of some things others have done in the past in regards to matters of serious site improvement/discussion.
...That is the proper way of signing off of a message sent out of official business... And while I don't know the past, exactly, I do know that maintaining a level of professionalism is always helpful towards discussions. It helps get things done in the most efficient way possible, but I have abode by your request and moved the information to the top of the post.
Frost's Stuff
...It is true that they have always been more of a team than an Organization, and would likely be better off that way. However, much like the Akatsuki, that doesn't mean they have to be spotlight, front-and-center. The good thing about the Zero Division is that it is a place for Shinigami to go once they have ascended captainhood, or another would do better in their current position. If we remove them entirely, we lose that ability. Perhaps it would do best not to inactivate them or disband them, but to set them aside in the teams board for now? They aren't hurting anything, and we know that they are supposed to be an important part of the Bleach Universe. In addition... the canon Zero Division are there for SOMETHING; in regards to the big man upstairs himself, we don't know yet. If we find out and it truly is unnecessary, then perhaps we should disband them; but remember that then Shinigami would indeed be locked in those captain positions or just become 'veterans'; not a particularly unique term. I do think that the site should have them, in some capacity, to serve as that 'ace', though it may be true that they should not have an extremely visible presence. Just some things to consider.
In conjunction with Snowball, that has been the way they were run in the past, with regards to them being considered a "Guard" force for the Soul King. They were always used as a primary military force of extreme power for offensive/defensive purposes when ran in the past, so seeing that prospect come to light makes sense to me, as that goes in line with what they've always done in regards to PH. Just my 2 Cents off 2 cents...
Right; I see that they should be an Ace in the Hole, but since their change, which means they are not doing what they did before, they save it for when it truly matters; on home turf, where it is ABSOLUTELY the most vital. Shinigami will indeed come and go; that is a fact that won't change. However, if they lose the place that they come from, then it's all useless. That's why they should be an Ace in one specific place; they have the freedom to go other places or do other things on an individual level, but it needs to be organized in how they do so in order to make sure that their foremost responsibility is maintained. Their purpose as a Zero Division is the interest of the Gotei's structure maintaining itself. As long as the structure is intact, the Zero Division as a group should not be involved; that keeps their ability as "Ace's" at its highest and most focused level, and TRULY gives it meaning when they NEED to trigger.
Well originally when I had written this I had not included the soul king as I honestly thought he was already dead. This was brought to my attention and I changed it to incorporate him but you do raise a good point. Id like to remove the ' protect the king' part and focus more on the 'above the law, talented special operation force' that I was trying to turn them into. They can't do what they used to after all. Time have changed, the site is not 100% canon so I don't see any issue with change. However as frosty said, will we have enough characters to fill it? I don't know but I'm excited to find out! The team might only be 6 characters in size but that's just another trait of the division. It's almost like a vip club.
Anywho, just my on the spot thoughts on frosts comments.
In the present version, the squad is able to have up to 12 members, almost as many as there are Captains in the Gotei. This was not by accident; it is set up to have the ability to expand, so long as the basic structure of the group is maintained. Presently, however, we do not have that basic structure, and therein is the problem, as discussed above. I believe they would be fine for the interests of the site if simply those 6 who are the 'bones' of the organization are present; the other six are the 'body', and can fulfill other roles unless they are needed elsewhere.
Personal Sense: Chaozi, please tell me that you actually read what I said... I practically wrote half of it for you to do so....
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.
- Buddha
- Buddha
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