Timeskip Poll!

I'm adamantly against a timeskip, as I've made clear every time it's been brought up. Not just this timeskip, but any timeskip that exists in collaborative writing. There has not been a timeskip since I've been on the site, and things have progressed quickly and as they should. It feels like a cop out to say "I don't enjoy this world state, so lets fast forward to one I'm happier with." I don't believe that there is anything that isn't possible as PH currently is, and the only thing a timeskip does is 1.) Allow for progression that isn't written, or earned, and 2.) cause plots that are already underway, which are going to take a long amount of time, to become entirely meaningless, because "oh, a timeskip, well all that stuff I was building up to will have ended by then, so I guess I'll just put in for it to have happened off screen.
I think it's lazy, and out of place.

The timeskip's benefits and demerits impact two groups by majority: macro plotters and micro plotters.

Most of the arguments against timeskips that I hear or see in voice and chat are because it potentially, or definitively, throws a wrench in their plots. Most of the definitive plots ruined are ones that are macro plots people are intent on having come to fruition; most of the potential plots ruined are micro plots: personal stories and threads between characters that members are worried are going to become awkward, ruined, or disjointed by an acceleration of hypothetical or active relationships from the gap of the timeskip.

The people that the timeskip generally benefit are macro plotters. Plots that involve the greater world of PH, wherein a timeskip enables things to be written off or opens avenues to new dialogues and events. These dialogues and events are not necessarily inaccessible without the timeskip, but the timeskip offers cohesion and reasonable world-building for the site.

Something like the rebuilding of America could get the Greenland treatment of being quickly fixed up in the blink of an eye, but it's not very sensible, and kind of breaks In-Character balance. Alternatively, if people were interested in RPing out the setting of rebuilding America, no reason to timeskip--but the fact of the matter is the interests in these potential macroplots available currently, that are cohesive, are not as popular or desired as the potential plot of RPing a post-redeveloped America. This applies to other potential macro plots that people want to do as well, that I won't list because I'm sure plenty of the people plotting them don't want them immediately known. They could list them out if they want, but it's not my place.

There are other benefits, problems, arguments with or against the timeskip, I just feel that the dynamic between macro and micro plotters are the most pertinent, and the ones people care most about. So then, I think this becomes a discussion on what to prioritise, or which is more beneficial for the memberbase. I think the timeskip.

In the end, one of the groups are going to be some level of cucked out of some of the things they want to do. Removed from what I think from a rationale is better to go with, I'll actually just go with very personal, anecdotal, and entirely selfish reasoning, cause I think most of the discussions on the timeskip is how it would presonally impact the individual member, rather than what they believe is genuinely a net positive for the site.

For me, I like doing macro-plots. I think macro-plots inherently breed micro-plots and open up opportunities for way more, way cooler relationships and events. I enjoy the idea of characters legacies, my own or others', being carved into the site history by merit of their achievements or failures. I think that's the crux of what made PH so fun to RP on in the past, and while there were problems back then, the RP was fun. That's what I RP for. Because I enjoy it, and things happening at a grand scale are what I enjoy the most. I also heavily value cohesion, if you didn't know. When things happen reasonably, when there are fewer things I can stop at and go "what the fuck? How and why is this happening?" the more enjoyable the writing is. So the timeskip is exceptionally good for me. I also think that people more focused on personal, micro-plots, don't get cucked that hard. Personal plots are much easier to have their hiccups overcome in my opinion.

In counter to my own preference, admittedly it's clear that in the current state of PH, personal plots tend to get favoured already, indicative of the fact that the times timeskips were brought up previously were no-go'd. People complained that it might or will mess with their plots, so protecting the site's on-going, smaller plot-lines, were priotised over opening up the opportunity for grander plots. The site on a whole has then gone into generally priotising or concerning itself with these micro-plots in totality. Macro-plots aren't really present anymore.

This is partially because a lot of the people that chase after macro plots also do micro-plots. So even though I feel like the amount of people who want macro plots and the people who want micro plots are even, the amount of people who will do micro-plots are greater. Additionally, it's clear that plenty of people who like doing micro-plots actually refuse to do macro-plot, which is a lot harder to work with. Even more pressingly, by its nature macro plots tend to require more people, wherein which micro plots do not.

PH has pretty thoroughly recessed into a state where circles have formed, and people tend to RP within those circles, with some outliers here and there, but those outliers seem to be unimpactful towards the integrity of the circles. Macro plots require those circles to be bridged and function together, which while ridiculously fun in my opinion, I have no faith or reason to believe, is currently achievable. Which is unfortunate; this is a shounen-setting RP with systems that serve the setting, but the active site itself really is predominately more of a social RP.

I voted for a timeskip, and to be frank I think if we went with a timeskip most of the complaints or people who are against it aren't really affected that badly--that being the personal plots which I believe in majority are easily navigable to adjust to a timeskip. I think there may be a few outliers wherein the timeskip is extremely detrimental--as aforementioned that tends to be the ongoing macro plots--but to say from personal experience, shit happens and it's not a big deal; you get over it and move on. Most macro plots that aren't achievable over a timeskip either should've been able to and would've been pushed through by now, or are not plots so large and encompassing and overarching that they could survive through a timeskip. Either way, in PH's current state, both OOCly and the climate of the IC world, I don't think macro plots that can be maintained as cohesive, are possible right now.

Edited addition: As we already know, a good amount of people on PH are very attached to their characters, and their characters are highly personal. Ironically, the mass majority of the development of many of these characters, for which they accrued to become the aspects of the character people value and covet and hold personal to them, occurred through the inclusion and activity in macro-plots. People tend to be very defensive about things like their tier and skillsheets. A lot of people have pride over the wide accomplishments of their characters. All of that happens from macro-plots.

Firstly, to preface my post. I am voting no.

I also want to mention I feel like I am one of the people that would probably benefit most from the timeskip, though I waited and took time to consider before making my decision due to wanting to contemplate all the points presented and listen to people's discussions.

• Point #1 [Posting Disparity]
  I believe the timeskip gets most of the value out of people that post quickly and consistently. Something very few of the memberbase can or want to do, like yeah, I can easily RP multiple years worth of development for most of my characters as threads set during that grey area in the period of a couple of months for my plots. I can close out threads in days of making them with a posting partner that can keep that same enthusiasm to post.
  
  The memberbase is not me though, I am a pretty big autistic outlier for being able to post at such a rate and to be consistent. Using metrics on the sidebar for this month of posting the highest poster who is not staff or has an inflated post count by blitzing with me in succession (Sieg), is Cody at 23 posts and Henrex at 16.
  
  If 15 to 25 posts is what we consider for an average postcount--since this month does feel slower than previous ones--some of those are definitely claims and site posts which are not actual RP posts as well. In addition to all these posts being spread over multiple ongoing threads.
  
  There is a massive disparity to expect these timeskip threads to be done in a timespan that isn't very large by the memberbase in a similar amount of time due to either feeling pressured to be done and keep up with everyone or be adverse to actually engaging in the would be future of the site because they are stuck in sorting out their characters' status in this new climate.
  
  If a member doing roughly one thread a month I would rather that member's thread potentially develop plot and create avenues in the present climate rather than have however many months of people trying to work out where they sit before creating plots that would affect the future "present", post-timeskip.
  
  
• Point #2 [Conditional Return]
  I feel I need to stress the timeskip going in such a manner that would be ideal, involves multiple different people taking advantage of the setting to setup a for macro plot to develop.
  
  I know multiple people have already mentioned their plots, macro and micro, being put in awkward spots by the prospect. I would be no different in this situation. The point being made of 'it can be really good for the site' only applies if the return is greater than the cost. The plots that come of a timeskip must outweigh the plots lost, at least how I see it.
  
  So, with this as my stance. I do not have faith that the timeskip could be used in such a manner that it would reap more benefit than it costs.That is not to say I don't acknowledge how much easier it is to create a climate that can spur on changes and development on a macro scale through a timeskip.
  
  This builds on SE's point where most of PH's members are very micro-plot orientated, if the memberbase is largely micro-orientated then I do not see how a timeskip will make these people or circles suddenly change. This timeskip being executed in a really good way, means those circles being less enclosed because timeskipping and people only being focused on their circle will only make development for their circle, not the greater stage of the site.
  
  I am very much a person that would like to see new things happen and be down to see a timeskip, I do not want a setting though where we are sitting here with our dicks in our hands jerking out how we're situated in the grey area for potentially months rather than actually making things happen in that post-timeskip situation.
  
  
• Point #3 [WW4 Veteran & Staff Member]
  Yeah fuck you, I said it. The amount of work required from this shit happen is a lot and not to rub some lemon in your WW4 wounds or anything for all the people that feel me on it, with that big plot left a sour taste in their mouth. If this timeskip turned out like another WW4, I sure am just going to be really burnt out and would rather just have this current setting until someone eventually breaks some ice and recreates some site global drama and macro engagement.
  
  WW4 was a massive macro plot opportunity, and I'll stand by the huge mess it was. This actually ties down into my conditional return point, because this is WAY more intensive to make work than WW4 from my perspective as staff and a member.

Edit: An alternative to a timeskip, which I forgot to add in my initial drafting, is instead of a period of going from Point A to Point B it would instead create a dialation between the time that occurs between OOC and IC. For example, a year OOC would translate to two years IC. You're free to discuss this option as it creates more progress of time, without being a technical skip going on but still speeding up the rate that events can reasonably develop.

In all things, there is two parts to it. The Idea, and The Execution. One does not imply success for the other, and many terrible ideas have been executed very well, and visa versa. I wasn't really in WW4 except for that one "Let's nuke a civilian city" thread, but I can say that from all the conversation I have seen about it; WW4 is the prime example of "Nice idea, terrible execution".

That, I feel, is the sticking point for people. However nice you make the idea of the Timeskip sound, there is still a good chance that the execution stumbles. Everyone is still spooked from just how bad WW4 went and so don't have any more faith to go off for another thing.


Personally, I'd kind of have to ignore it for a long while. I've got a cadre of characters built up and ready to make, but 3 out of 4 of them would need multiple flashback threads before I could ever play them in real time. And if everyone is doing flashback threads to tie up plot to get them ready for the future, then what's the point of the skip to begin with?

Given the weight of the decision here, and the fact that I have been one of the longest-standing proponents of a timeskip in the past, I feel like it's more or less my moral obligation to post an explanation of the reason for my vote.

My vote, for the record, was no.

First, I want to make clear that I do fundamentally believe in the value of a timeskip for roleplay, given that it allows for the exact same narrative fluidity that one allows for in a normal narrative. The timeskip very much allows for radical shifts in the macro-plot which would seem wholly nonsensical within the timespans we usually cover, and in general, there are usually those things that a group of writers will simply collectively agree they don't care to write. The downtime of a situation, as it will. No GM of any worth makes their players play out every day of a weeklong trip across the continent, after all.

However, the narrative value of a timeskip, in my view, is outweighed by the practical realities of it. A timeskip of any significance would require extremely consistent coordination between staff and every active member in order to make sure that every event of any importance over the course of the timeskip is in fact accounted for. In a roleplay of smaller scale, this would not be a problem, but it is no secret that PH covers a fairly wide gulf of content, such that the vast majority of members do not know of all the major goings on even now, as they happen.

Because of this, there will be a rather significant volume of flashback threads that one will likely need to write out in order to pursue the plots they have intended to pursue, and to post actively with both necessary flashbacks and with current-time plotlines will almost certainly prove to be a fairly daunting task for most members at normal rates of posting. Beyond that, creating a situation of much more extreme liquid time, when we have already acknowledged that liquid time does occasionally lead into rather significant headache, only puts further strain on both staff and the members involved. It is not unreasonable to assume that some plotlines may simply never leave the realm of flashback threads due to their natural progression, even moreso if we assume, again, normal posting rates.

Beyond that, there is also the consideration that to plan out 10 years of events, assuming members actually engage significantly enough to know what will be happening, will lead to a great deal of "well X happened so Y character would have done Z," either in response to a decision made regarding the timeskip or in response to a flashback thread which is written after a character's life during those 10 years is determined.

The coordination required for such a narrative device is, simply put, not present on Platinum Hearts. However, I think it is also worth addressing that there almost certainly will be some degree of exploitation of a timeskip, whether intentional or not. It is not exactly a secret that the systems PH operates on are prone to exploitation, both intentional and otherwise, as a consequence of their age. Creating a situation wherein 10 years of character growth can occur without any immediate staff oversight, or member oversight for that matter, can and will lead to situations where growth that was not actually acceptable for one reason or another will be planned around and possibly even written around.

Even if we ignore all of the very major impacts this would have on older members, however, we also need to consider the impact on newer members. We often take a fairly laissez-faire approach to new members, and I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. It's unreasonable to expect us to simply adapt what we already have to facilitate people who haven't ever been here. However, a timeskip puts a massive degree of weight on members who either have just joined, or will be joining soon. We acknowledge quite often that the older PH lore is something that can generally be ignored by newer members, but to create a timeskip creates 10 years of in-universe lore that, by its very nature, will almost certainly be relevant and crucial for new members to have at least some understanding of. For those who have only just joined, or for new members that will likely join in the wake of TYBW, that will likely prove even more daunting than entry into PH already is. While I don't necessarily care much about hypothetical members who have not yet joined, I do think the impact on newer members who are currently present has not been fully considered.

As I've said, my fundamental stance on the value of a timeskip has not changed. My stance on a timeskip with regards to Platinum Hearts and its memberbase specifically, however, has.

Voting no.

Obviously I dont have as much stake in this as other people on site, especially since I just came back from a month long hiatus, but I'm just going to throw my two cents in here.

Timeskips rarely work in a rp setting. They just fundamentally don't. Sure, its cool to see characters after a long period of time past, write about how their lives have progressed and such. However, so much of RP is time sensitive, and it often requires threads upon threads of material to even attempt to bridge the gap over a handful of years, let alone something like 10. It burns people out, and I know something like this would probably burn me out on Laskt.

I think that's because most of the enjoyment of writing characters is having them progress. Given this is going to be a ten year timeskip, that means most characters have to progress quite a bit. Sure, in the grand scheme of things, ten years is a pathetically short amount of time for a Demon or a Shini, but in an OOC perspective that's a massive amount of time. It forces people to artificially develop their characters to compensate, and that's rarely ever fun to say "oh yeah, its been a while, they are totally over their issues now"

With Laskt for example, his main thing is that he's finally coming out of his shell, and thats fun for me to write. If a timeskip is suddenly slapped on the site, Im forced to make a choice between kneecapping his development to allow me a character to write in the post-timeskip world, or forcing me to write a bunch of flashbacks to justify him having made progress, neither of which is fairly appealing.

So yeah, no thanks please thank you

Upon a nuanced reading of the prospect of a timeskip, I think I stand with the majority in that skipping ahead would honestly be more of a struggle than it is worth. Lots of flashback threads(which are not a bad thing by any stretch of the term, I am surprised we never do these more, if not to establish what went down or to illuminate interesting concepts about a character we can't glean through reading their history) would eventually either end up way too confusing due to how long it would take for members to possibly explain what has happened to character a or character b, and how it affects the overall direction of the site's plot.

Is it a bad idea? No. I for one would not particularly be against it given the fact that most of my roster isn't completed and so this would really only just give me the motivation to complete them and I see myself not suffering too much based on that but I think if I examine what Gamma said and S_E, which centers on the concept of how the member base engages in circles or certain members navigate towards micro plot rather than macro, and stepping out of those circles, would a timeskip really change that? Would it make them step out of that circle or even motivate them to do so? I think rather than time-skipping and trying to add puzzles in for those lost years, we should all...

I mean, I'm not the most intelligent with giving suggestions but why not do something where we have a member engagement type of thing? By that, I mean, us as newer members stepping out of our comfort zone and talking to newer members - having them explain their ideas and making suggestions on how they could add to a character's story or how they could interact. I think that's a bane of PH, but maybe I read it wrong.

Maybe it's something already being done, I can't say for sure but I think being open to like maybe letting newer members ask questions about our characters and vice-versa could lead to more roleplay opportunities for all. This doesn't even have to just be characters, it could also go for like the impact those characters have had, be they protagonist or antagonist, and what might lead a newer member's character onto their path.

I think, too, that the circles we have aren't bad. I'd be lying to say that those circles didn't spark muse in me to want to get in on what was going on with a group of characters - like, Cyrus for example and the quincy.

I never envisioned myself making a quincy, let alone planning to make two in the future, but the roleplay between Cyrus and Helle and those around them like Joshua and Saisei really makes me eager as a roleplayer to be apart of that organization(Vandenreich.) Another example was the Soul Society noble rp. That series of events was by far, the most engaging roleplay I have ever had in some time.

The emotion, the drama, the conflict of interests, and just reading those threads and wanting to throw myself in was amazing. Truly, top-tier rp. I think when two or three of us can generate that type of action, it sparks others to join in sometimes. I think we should do that more. Be open to ideas, spark something in one another, and be open to allowing others into the circles that we've built, provided they come with proper ideas themselves.

This truly has gone on long enough and I feel like I may be rambling, so to reiterate, while it isn't really a bad idea, I'll have to pass based on the difficulty and the issues of having to provide explanations and write in the context of changes and vice-versa. I think it'd be easier just to work what we have now and just be more open to interacting outside of our border.